[00:00:00] Pascal: Hi, welcome to One Degree Shifts. I'm your host, Pascal, and I'm the co founder of Nektar. And today I'm super blessed and super grateful, uh, to be joined by my very good friend, Lore McLaren. I first met Lore some years ago at one of my first Grandmother ceremony is where I had a pretty epic flip out. I started howling.
I started rolling on the floor, uh, seeing beautiful things and eventually blanked out, woke up in the morning with a bump on my head. Um, and years later, uh, Lore reconnected with Mina Lane and Caslow and, um, started developing a very, Uh, deep friendship, uh, with Lore, who is an amazing person and, uh, someone I hold in very high esteem in all different ways, but especially as a friend and as a, as a, as a, for me, a mentor really, um, and a very good person walking the surf and, um, I'm just really grateful for all the campfires and the sauna nights and the, um, ceremony days that we spent together in last years.
And I'm just really happy that you're here on the podcast, Lore. Thank you.
[00:01:14] Lore: Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for having me, Pascal.
[00:01:21] Pascal: Thanks for being here at such an early time in Peru. Like we can hear the roosters. Uh, it sounds like there's some birds singing in the background.
[00:01:28] Lore: Yeah. You might hear kids as they get ready for school and yeah, birds and maybe some rain.
Not sure. Yeah.
[00:01:38] Pascal: Yeah. That's a very nice place to be at. Um, so Laurie, yeah. Thank you for being here and I'd love for people to get to know you a little bit more. Um, what's your, work in the world and where are you at these days with that?
[00:01:54] Lore: Mm hmm. Yeah, so, um, my work, right now I'm not working as I'm doing a personalized plant healing treatment with a, an Anaya, um, uh, Shipibo curandera in the Peruvian jungle.
But when I'm not, Doing that, um, my work is, I'm a relational somatic therapist, um, really supporting people to heal and transform trauma in their life. I'm also, um, conscious connected breathwork facilitator and, uh, plant medicine integration guide. And not currently, but for the last 10 years, I've been facilitating gender affirming therapy.
Practice and workshops, um, to service providers.
And I am a plant medicine, um, I guess you could say, uh, plant medicine assisted therapist. So I support people on an individual basis, um, healing through plant medicine.
[00:03:04] Pascal: Yeah. Beautiful. And your guide on the car, which is a great honor for us to have you on the team. And, um, I remember one of the first times we met in Kaslo, we were on the beach and you were talking with Elaine and you shared a little bit about your story and really being inspired by your life's journey, In the past, you, you were challenged by, in very big ways of psychosis and, uh, being in psych wards and crisis centers and living on the street and basically you were in a really terrible spot, basically, and now you're helping others on their journey towards healing, and I find that so inspiring, and it's such a courageous story, and I'd love for you to give us a broad sort of nutshell of sort of your arc to where you're at today.
[00:04:01] Lore: Yeah, thanks, Pascal. Um, it's really interesting because as, uh, the last couple of days, as I was really contemplating, um, having this conversation with you here today, today is actually the anniversary of, um, what I call like the heightened experience of the worst day of my experience of spiritual emergence or spiritual emergency, also known as psychosis.
Um, August 26th. 2006 would be like 18 years ago and for a long time I kept it in my awareness as a as a day like oh this is the day the worst of the worst happened um but then there became a time where I actually it wasn't so much in the forefront of my mind. So I name it madness, like true madness. So I went through pretty horrific experience of psychosis.
And really the way I could describe it is like losing touch with reality. in a pretty enormous way. And for me, when that happened, um, I also simultaneously experienced police brutality and, um, violence in the psychiatric system. So I went through a pretty tough time and it was pretty, Life shattering, um, and I guess specifically like mind shattering is for a long time.
I tried to find ways to describe it And I did get through and I got through You know, sometimes I look back and think how on earth did I get through that? and then in in other kind of forms of thinking or contemplation. I really got through with so much amazing support and people who supported me. Um, and I think my soul had a purpose of experiencing that.
And the way, you know, years of healing through that. Um, and to be honest with you, like, I still heal pieces of that experience. It was about six months of pretty massive crisis. And as you said, yeah, like, um, in, um, psychiatric care, which is an interesting word because I don't know if I would exactly call it care, um, psychiatric institutions, um, shelters on the street.
So yeah, I got through. Um, and. Several years of pretty deep healing after that. I came to the awareness that, um, I needed to go through that, and what, the specific things of what happened to me, I'm not going to go into details here, but, I believe, you know, when I came to a place of groundedness and, you know, measure of kind of health after that, after a couple years, I realized that that experience for me was like a real purging of pretty, pretty extreme trauma I went through as a child.
And some of that experience of madness or spiritual emergence or psychosis paralleled my experience as a, as a kid. And in a way. It wasn't the best way to do it and I would never wish it on anybody and, but it was a way of purging an energy or, or a set of experiences that I just didn't know how to purge.
And this is the way I see it for myself is that that experience was a way to just kind of like release that energy in a, in a uncontained and not super safe way. And I wasn't conscious. Um, but ultimately I do believe that. One of my soul's purpose in this body, on this earth, at this time, this time around, I would say, is to experience deep suffering and to, like, learn and receive healing from it.
And then be able to support other people.
[00:08:28] Pascal: Sort of like a curse as a gift kind of thing, like that, that level of, of suffering opens up so many different layers of your service to the world and who you are as a person. And I've seen it firsthand many, many times that your, your depth of understanding of the human condition is. very deep and also very nourishing to others that you can share this with.
And me and Elaine have been on the receiving end that many times. And, um, your story, when we talked about the podcast last time, uh, I think it was you that came up with the title for this, which is Healing is Possible. And I just really love that line that healing is possible. Um, can you share a little bit more about that?
[00:09:18] Lore: I do believe it's like this bone deep soul deep knowing that healing is possible.
You know, to be honest with you, my experience is that, elements of the unfathomable are are actually possible to heal. My view of healing, there's so many elements to it, but one of them is for me, the way I see it or experience it or view it in other people that I have the privilege of working with is like a deprogramming of the detrimental effects of our, what I call like Western cultural, um, programming.
[00:10:00] Lore: And so part of that programming, there's so many elements to it, but part of it is this like impossibility or disempowering energy or element. I think that a lot is possible. So much is possible. We have so much power as human beings in our essence and nature. And I just mean like capacity or like power to, you know, um,
[00:10:28] Pascal: Almost like create miracles if we want to.
Yeah. Yeah. Mm-Hmm. .
[00:10:36] Pascal: I find that inspiring because I, I think this, this core message really is something that I, I wish for everyone to feel at some point is that it is possible and that we can achieve anything.
Um, and today we're gonna talk about. The different ways where that healing occurred for you and continues to occur for you as well. Um, what helped you along the journey, you know, the medicine, the teachings, uh, the mentors, the teachers, um, the community. So we'll, we'll explore that together.
And we can start with the most counterintuitive one when it's on a, you know, plant medicine podcast like this which is that plant medicines is not for everyone, right?
[00:11:21] Lore: This, thought keeps coming back in for me and that is that like, it's true.
I want to just kind of hop back for a minute to the healing is possible. It is true that healing is possible. And I do believe at least from my experience, my experience of working with the plants has supported me in ways that I never imagined like possible, even though I kind of have always held this like soul knowing that healing is possible.
And I believe that. You know, we each have our own path, you know, as human beings, we each have like our purpose. We learn, we, we experience, you know, what it's like to be human. And on a soul level, you know, people have their own paths. And so. For those that, you know, might not, um, heal a certain element or an illness or something, it's not this failure that like, oh, you just didn't reach the healing as possible, you know, aspect.
Everyone has their own path and their own kind of soul purpose the way I see it. And so, um, you know, some people may die. Some people may feel that they don't heal something. Some, in my view of the world, like sometimes it's lifetimes of, of healing on a soul level. And then to jump back into, it's not for everybody. I remember, you know, feeling so empowered, um, By really life changing experience, the first time I ever experienced the grandmother, which is ayahuasca, um, and feeling like, oh, I just want everybody to experience this, you know?
And then years later, I had the, yeah, the privilege and honor to connect with this beautiful elder in, in my life who, you know, um, Pascal, um, his name is Duncan. It's a Blackfeet elder. He's a beautiful soul. And I remember him sharing with the circle one time, um, I think maybe in response to someone's comment that, you know, everyone in the world should be, you know, working with plant medicine.
And I remember him responding and saying that it actually isn't for everybody. And that that's not the most helpful. These is my words. He would have different words, but this is my words. It's not the most helpful thing to want this for everybody. And it's, isn't for everybody. And it's not my role to decide for someone else what their experience with their life is, you know?
And so I really, really appreciated, um, his teaching and his story on that. And it isn't for everybody. And I don't think it should be.
[00:14:08] Pascal: Definitely not for everyone. No, for sure. Um, and you, you touched on it a little bit as well. Um, you know, this desire or maybe this. frame that we have that, oh, we have suffering or trauma and we need to heal it even in this lifetime, um, which like you said, so well, it might not be on the cards or the destiny of someone in this lifetime.
And so that it really opens up this timeline of healing and where and how and how long it might take. And I feel like there's a definitely a cultural, I don't know if it's an attachment or a chase or maybe an addiction of like wanting things to be really fast and strong and immediate. But now you're talking about multiple lifetimes, and that just opened up so much for me when you said that.
Um, and I think that's one of the things we've talked about in the past, is this sort of idea between peak experiences and slowness, and you're currently working in the jungle with some non altered, Or sort of non psychedelic plants, right? And I know you've done dietas before, just like me and Elaine, and we've all experienced this idea of slowness and really taking the time to listen to the plants and tune in rather than sort of trying to check a box and a list kind of thing.
At what point did you start to connect with those ideas on your journey?
When did you
[00:15:51] Pascal: start? immediately with that sort of wisdom.
[00:15:57] Lore: No, no. Um, well, I've always had this love for plants in my life, nature, trees, trees, plants, the greenery, the energies, the colors, you know, being enamored by, um, I'm a feeler. I'm, I'm a very, very sentience.
I have a lot of senses. I feel, I feel things really deeply. And I have felt, like, the energy or presence of, like, something from plants in my life. I, but I, I had no idea, um, really the world of plant spirits. My first experience with a grandmother with ayahuasca, my very first experience, um, was actually two ceremonies with a day in between.
And the, the second night, I, well, I woke up in the morning, probably super early in the morning, and I could just, all I could do was smell the smell of cedar. really strong and the smell of rose together. And I was like, wow, this is so interesting. And I was like, you know, I went back to sleep and woke up and had breakfast and I just kept smelling this intense smell.
It was glorious. It was beautiful. And I, but it felt like it was coming out of my sweat or even my tears. And I remember going to the, this really beautiful and I remember saying to her, okay, this is wrong. There's nothing wrong, but like, what is happening? All I'm doing is smelling cedar. Rose fell away, but cedar, we're like, you know, all you can do is smell this.
And she said to me that her experience of me in the ceremony was that these plants were coming in really strong was her words. And I was like, well, wow, that's great. And how can I honor their presence with me? And that's when she introduced me to the, uh, the concept and the practice of, of dieta and connecting with the spirit of the plant, and that's when And so that was my first experience.
And I ended up from there, yeah, doing, um, connecting with the plants in a really structured, specific, disciplined way for the last eight years, pretty consistently. And I would say for myself, I've had profound experiences with ayahuasca and washuma and psilocybin and Devi, which is, um, a word, a name we use for, um, three MNC.
Which is not, it's a derivative of a plant, but it's not, it's not a plant. Um, so I've had powerful experiences for myself and, um, however, my experiences of working with the plants individually in a, in a so called dieta, um, has been the most profound healing for me in my life. The most profound. And really opened up the whole world of, um, This real sacred intelligence and brilliance and that the plants have to offer humans.
[00:19:19] Pascal: When we say this work is not for everyone, there are much, much more gentler, uh, ways like Dieta's to experience deep healing.
[00:19:30] Lore: Um, and also things like, um, slowing down, meditation, yoga, Tai Chi, art. You know, silence, things that aren't in the realm of the plants or plant medicine, you know, to support people.
I mean, that's what I feel. I feel like it's not for everybody and it doesn't have to be, and there's really powerful ways to heal. It doesn't have to do with, with the plants or plant medicine or psychedelics, you know, so
[00:20:04] Pascal: you don't necessarily need to blast yourself out in the space to receive very powerful healing.
Um,
[00:20:10] Lore: yeah, and we're, and we're on, you know, we're talking in the context of, um, Psychedelics and plant medicine and integration and, you know, healing. So yeah, for sure. And it's not, it doesn't have to be, it's not the thing and nothing else.
[00:20:29] Pascal: Yeah, exactly. I wanted to diffuse that from the beginning. Cause I think there's a lot of, a lot of richness in that.
And you know, the, the plant diet, the world for me was also like, it's been my favorite thing. modality and experience of all of them. Um, and I've done almost all the medicines or psychedelic medicines you can think of. Um, and it was my first dieta with Douglas fir where it just changed my life completely.
And I was just drinking tea from a very special tree that was nearby my house. And I was just connecting with it and every day. And one of the things I learned the most from that experience was just this idea of listening rather than speaking. Or this idea of, of listening to the language of spirit and the heart without necessarily being on the receiving part of a huge download of energy or teachings all at once.
But more of like tuning into the subtleties of the language of the plants, which at first I thought it was science fiction. Honestly, I was like, Oh, what is this? Like, I'll give it a try. I don't really believe in it. But like, as soon as you start the process, you're like, wow, this is actually real. It, it broke a lot of barriers for me and it was so subtle and slow, but so powerful.
And so I'd love for you to share a little bit about this because you mentioned silence and my friend David says that silence is God's language and I'd love for you to talk about that listening versus speaking and silence
[00:22:09] Lore: Mm hmm, I believe that there's a different way to Hear not just with what are the sounds that land in our ears that we process or take in or.
You know, but how do we actually hear? How do we listen? How do we hear? And I can hear birds. I'm not sure if you can hear that in the background. Yes. And I mean, the teachings for me that the lessons offered to me, um, through my connections with the plants have been, yeah, so, so much. Um, I remember one night, um, I was connecting with the spirit of cedar.
And I had these massive, these three massive trees pretty close to where, right outside my door in the middle of the night. I was sleeping and it was winter and Um, I feel like I got this message from Cedar to go outside and, and put my body like, like lean against the tree. And I remember kind of, kind of waking up and it wasn't, it wasn't like a clear, I was like, is this a thought or is this like, you know, message like wasn't quite clear on that.
And I felt myself wanting to like, you know, get snuggle under the blankets more and, and knock it up. And then the message kept coming to me, and I, and it's like something just dawned on me where I was like, you know, Laura, this is how you listen. This is how, like, you, you know, enter in this relationship.
Like, there's this The spirit of the plant is, um, connecting with you. And so it's a different energy, it's not like you hear someone's voice, you know, like this is my experience. It's not like I hear, it's like you and I are talking, I hear your voice in a certain way right now. And then I listen and I respond.
It has a different quality in my experience. And so, I didn't want to get up out of bed. I was cold, I was tired. I just wanted to get up. You know? And I just kept hearing this message, or feeling this message, or receiving this message. And then it just dawned on me. Laura, you've got to get up and go. You've got to listen.
You're here to listen, you know? So I did. I, I, I was like, okay. So I got out, put all my clothes on, all my work stuff, blanket, went out. We were probably five, six steps. Lived in a really beautiful piece of land there. And I just kind of put my belly and body standing up against this one tree.
And, um, I ended up just feeling this overwhelming in a good way. like love and warmth in my body and in my heart and um, in this kind of peacefulness, you know, I think I was also really happy that I responded, you know, one of the things I've been healing in my life is like a freeze in my nervous system into my being and um, shut down, you know, functional shutdown in a way.
And so I was really happy and I was like, Oh great, I'm kind of breaking through that right now, you know, and I, I felt this strong connection and then I had this, um, really soft sadness. And then I felt like my left leg that was touching the tree, this really enormous cedar tree on the west coast, on the island, and I just had this shaking.
My, my leg started to shake in against the tree. It was like kind of like a trembling or like a shaking of release. And at that time, it's really interesting actually, at that time, I felt like somatically I was healing a lot of trauma energy that was. Held in my legs, in the real big muscles of your legs, the thighs and hamstrings and it was Related to one of my experiences through psychosis and spiritual emergence was fighting being restrained, um, in the height of psychosis and, um, and I had such power of wanting to fight and in my, in my legs.
So I was healing that at that time. I was focusing on that. And so when I was, that night when I was called out to the cedar tree and I felt like the tree helped me release some of that energy, just by virtue of like putting my, my body and my legs against my, my body against the tree. So there's a beautiful, um, teaching for me of learning how to listen.
Yeah. And,
[00:27:10] Pascal: um, thanks for sharing and, you know, diffusing such strong and powerful energy with such softness too. Right.
[00:27:19] Lore: Yeah.
[00:27:22] Pascal: And, uh, listening to the message, not through your logical brain and mind, but from your heart and soul, which I think is for me was, has been an ongoing process of, you know, listening.
opening myself up to receiving and listening to those messages. Cause we're so used to logicing things and filtering things through our mind that even just the process of trying to connect with our heart and, and listening that way is a big part of healing, I believe.
[00:27:51] Lore: Well, I think it's a big part of healing in relation to our culture.
You know, like this is where I, you know, I've, I'll share a little bit about where I am and in, in immersed in a different culture, which is a blessing. Um, so for the last six months, I've been connecting with this really beautiful and powerful, really skilled, um, Shipibo karendera, a healer who practices ancestral Shipibo medicine.
She's a Shipibo doctor. She's a vegetalista, meaning she has this vast knowledge of how to heal with the plants. And so I feel super blessed to have encountered her and to be working with her. So she has been, um, facilitating a healing treatment for me. And it's quite a long story, but, um, I ended up after two months, the center I was staying at, there was some changes and some shifts.
And, um, long story short, she invited me to stay with her to extend my healing treatment and, uh, her family. So I, I accepted. And I've been living with her and her pretty big family. And, um, immersed in, in their culture, which is Shipibo culture. And, it's a beautiful way for me to see the differences in our culture.
And so, there's so much to say about that, but I don't want to get too sidetracked, because I really want to come back to, like, healing. This is what I was sharing with you in the beginning, is like this, um, You know, there's like Western culture, there's beauties of Western culture. And there are some pretty significant detriments to our culture.
And one of them is like this fast paced, Go, go, go, this worthiness that's connected to productivity and doing and mental activity, logic, reasoning, this like overemphasis on the mind. And I know many of us are aware of that and, um, you know, doing lots of really amazing work to, um, you know, shed those ways and, and learn new ways or reprogram, so to speak.
Um, and one of those detriments, the way I see it is we are so fast. We talk fast. We think fast. We do things fast. We want to get things done. We want to, you know, just, so for me, um, like a healthy slowing down, a real kind of slower pace. for me to connect with, with the plants and their energies and like their gifts or their teachings or their wisdom or whatever you want to call it.
Um, I do believe it, like, at least for me and for the Western cultural context, we need to, we need to kind of, yeah, ungrip from the pace of our lives and slow down. But if you, if you come, my experience of Shipibo culture, at least with the beautiful people that I'm family that I've been living with for the last four months, um, they don't have that same need.
They're not running around or there's no stress. They have such a high value, high, high, high value on tranquila, like peacefulness and calm. So, I think, so to say that you need to slow down, um, and have silence or stillness to connect with the plants, I think that's cultural to the West. I don't know if that's the same here for, for instance, the way I, It's a very short time that I've been here with, with these family, the Shipibo family and their culture.
I don't think they might say that to themselves. They might say that to Westerners because they know that we are so fast and stressful on the whole, you know, on the whole.
[00:32:18] Pascal: We've got a lot of healing to do, we've got to do it now.
[00:32:21] Lore: Well, I mean, you know, I do, I do think that there's a real, like, I'm just going to throw this out there that.
This might get taken out of context, you know, but I think as a culture Western culture, which is global, you know, I think there's a sickness. I think there's an illness. I think there's like, you know, an unhealthiness as a whole to our culture.
Yeah,
[00:32:58] Pascal: absolutely. I mean, We see it everywhere, right, in the world that we live in, uh, sort of the, the ripple effects of colonialism and, um, capitalism and et cetera, all these things that
[00:33:11] Lore: Patriarchy, heterosexism, yeah, racism. The list is,
[00:33:16] Pascal: the list goes on, uh, the list goes on and we're all doing our best to kind of navigate that.
Yeah, for sure, for sure. Absolutely. And You know, we live in Bali now and, um, you know, just to speak about the cultural element that the contrast is, is different here, but it's also there around speed, you know, Balinese people, they, Even in their language itself, they don't really have a whole lot of words or concepts of future Or past and so everything is sort of in the present moment And so it it ripples out into their just ways of being and they deeply believe in karma um, and so in general, they're very peaceful and and uh, you know, very at ease and they They measure things and The good and the bad karma they've put out in the world.
And when something happens to them, oftentimes they've related to their soul's, um, sort of karma, right. And, you know, I've never seen so many people smile, like genuinely smiled and I have in Bali, uh, just the cultural framework is just completely different than the Western water. And, um, yeah, it's been a very teaching for us too.
And, um, I want to touch a little bit on this idea of listening. I want to go back to something that's, I find that very interesting, which is something that I started learning about years into my, my own journey, which was the word discernment, um, can you share a little bit about discernment and how you've, you know, interface with it over the years, and how do you see it today?
And, um, because what's interesting to me is that when you're tuning into those sort of spaces and you're listening more, uh, Intuitively then, you know, a lot of information can be received and there's a certain prism from which that information then gets. Acted upon or reflected on, and that's discernment.
I'd love to, for you to share a little bit about that.
[00:35:27] Lore: What is it that we choose to rest our awareness on? I think that's discernment. It's like, you know, let's say there's lots of information coming in, or there's lots of kind of like, um, Okay, for instance, if I, in my context, if I'm listening to the plants, for me it requires just stillness and, um, elements of quiet, slow, um, but I'm discerning, like, by way of.
Um, what kind of energy or what kind of quality or what kind of essence or quality of energy am I going to give attention to, and I think like, Oh, I just really want to, I really want to touch back on, I think this is related, but it's like when we were talking about, we're all doing our best, you know, It's true, we really are in, you know, finding ways as a people, as a humanity to come out of some of the dark places that we've been in as a people, with wars and all kinds of things.
You know, corporatization. I believe that sometimes people don't know how to get out of things. Like I want to quiet my mind, my mind's so busy, or I want to soften, or I want to love myself more, or I want to slow down. You know, these are just examples, you know, for me, myself, um, and I think, you know, For me, the plants help me, literally help me learn a new way or be able to practice kind of like connecting with a certain energy and or considering something or receiving something different.
And, um, you know, You were talking about, you know, Balinese people and there's no future and there's no past, a lot in their language or their conversation and, and it's about present moment. You know, when you were speaking about that, I was just thinking present moment. And that's a big piece of my work, um, in, you know, somatic work, relational somatic therapy is like present moment and embodiment, being in your body, you know, or being in your heart space.
But literally being in the body and your felt sense of the body and your felt sense of present moment. And I think we're really working on that. And so, you know, I think and I believe it's crucial for our health as human beings or as a people is present moment awareness and, um, embodiment, you know, what's it like to like, feel, just feel.
And I think when you, you know, bringing discernment in is like, oh, how do I, well, how do I choose to, to focus on this thing versus being caught by this mental activity or someone's talking over here, I'm going to listen to what they're talking about, or I'm going to get distracted by these really, by these sounds, you know, it's like a practice of like being able to hone in and kind of stay honed in on, on a certain energy.
I don't know if that makes sense.
[00:39:17] Pascal: That makes total sense as you're sharing this, I'm just reflecting on my own journey. And one of the things that, um, I've kept learning how to do better and better is just tuning in to, like you said, the energy I want to pay attention to. And so much of that has come from Being in spaces with people like yourself or, you know, Chris and Lindsay and Tyson and all these friends that we've shared physical space with where I felt this sort of harmonic resonance in the space where like, there's no jitter, there's no stress, there's no judgment, there's no nothing but, um, what I would best describe as like a buttery energy, like everything is just flowing really nicely.
And so to me, that's been a huge part of my path is just learning through reflecting with others, specifically people I would consider teachers and mentors, which is pretty much everyone I've sat in ceremony with. I learned something from, you know, like you mentioned Duncan earlier and the sharing circles and.
Spending time in a sauna with someone or like just looking at the way someone walks so gracefully and, you know, tuning to that and learning from that and reflecting on my own amount of grace at the time. And so it brings me to this idea of, of mentors and teachers that you've met along the way. And, um, you mentioned, uh, Duncan earlier, you mentioned a facilitator you sat with before.
Um, what's been the roles of, of mentors and teachers in your journey?
[00:41:06] Lore: Yeah, huge. Yeah. Huge. And, um, I feel so grateful, so grateful and blessed for the amount of teachers and mentors in my life. And, you know, I really, I learned from this. Um, this is, I think I've shared this with you before. There's one being who, um, really helped me so much through such a difficult time of spiritual emergence madness for me.
So this, this person is, uh, She's a, she was a group facilitator, like a therapist, a mindfulness meditation teacher and community facilitator, um, lots of, lots of other things, but, um, her name is Billy and I was living in Toronto at the time and, um, she, she taught me so much. I mean, I think my first real anchor into healing for myself is, Um, meditation.
And, so, she just, she had such a presence. You know, talking about present moment or presence is related. It's like this, a lot of people and mentors and teachers in my life have had this quality of presence. where at least she was one of the first ones that I connected with this presence where she would just be like, um, it's full of love and, um, care, but like having a containment of herself, you know, this kind of like integrity of herself.
Um, but really aware of you kind of like attuned to you listening, um, and this interest. You know, of who you are and what you're doing and what you're saying and maybe what you're not saying. But this presence is like a warmth and, um, there's no real element of sitting, you know, before someone or standing before somebody and connecting face to face.
You know, maybe having a conversation, but then one person is like, Oh, what am I, what am I going to have for lunch? Or, Oh, I got to remember to do this thing. You know, the opposite of presence, which we all do but there's like a practice of presence that she had honed as a, you know, she'd been practicing meditation and mindfulness for years.
And it showed, you know, and her, just her, yeah, I remember her saying to me years, she would host this, uh, there's in Toronto, there's this queer health center, Sherbourne health center. And she would offer Friday morning mindfulness circles for anyone in the community. And that would be like my temple, man.
I would go every Friday for years healing through, um, spiritual emergence and madness. And I remember her saying to me one time. I remember just saying like, thank you so much. And she said to me, Oh, you're, you're a teacher to me. And I remember at that time was being like, like, you're such, you're such a wise, loving, present.
non judgmental self kind of self possessed, you know, possess this quality of self. And you, you're calling me a teacher. And I remember at that time I was pretty low in my life and I, I didn't, I didn't have a lot of, you know, worthiness or I was like healing some pretty massive stuff, shame and, you know, fear and, um, just like, yeah, a lot of, not feeling worthy.
And I said, like, how am I a teacher to you? She ended up telling me that at the time she was promoting, uh, mindfulness circles with people who were, um, experiencing mental health challenges. She's a social worker, um, and she was approached by someone and said, no, you can't offer mindfulness meditation circles to people who have experienced or who live with schizophrenia or bipolar.
Disorder, so called, um, and she, she disagreed. She was also pretty, you know, fiery personality as well. And she said that she used me as an example, you know, in the height of my experience, which went on for months and months of, you know, unstable and basically mental health crisis. I would go to these circles and it was a haven for me in a, in a crisis.
And she witnessed me, you know, in that time. And part of it was her, you know, part of it was like her steadiness and her wisdom that she was sharing and her presence, you know, love. Um, but she said, you know, I actually, I know someone who is healing from psychosis and gets a lot of benefit from mindfulness, you know, but it was her practice of mindfulness because nowadays, you know, mindfulness, we use the word colloquially now and it's.
you know, taken out of context, you know, of what the real practice of mindfulness is in, in, in different elements or sects of Buddhism, you know? So I think that, you know, So to come back to all of that, you know, I remember being like, wow, you're my teacher. And then, you know, so she teaches me that we are all each other's teachers and, and students, you know, and she said to me years later, we, we kept in touch for a long time.
And I remember saying to her something like, oh, you're my teacher. And she's like, no, no, no, I'm not your teacher. She doesn't like the word teacher. And I respect that so much again, because there's no hierarchy. You know, again, Western lens, Western programming of like, maybe it's in other cultures too, but our hierarchy of like, someone is above, you're the teacher, you have, you're better than, for lack of a better word, than a student, you know, and so she's like, we're, you know, I'm not your teacher.
I'm not a teacher. I don't like that word teacher. Even though I was like, okay, great, then I'll just say someone who's really taught me so much in my life.
[00:47:48] Pascal: How beautiful is that? And that is so empowering and must have been. And I think a really good reflection for anyone listening to and for myself as well, of just this idea of like, whenever we're connecting with someone, we're either asking for love or sharing love. I think that's you who taught me that before.
And I think just every moment we're, we're teaching and, and being thought I think this idea of, uh, of presence you mentioned multiple times and just being a humble student of life itself, like really humbling yourself to just the miracle of life and the, the hugeness of the cosmos and everything else around us, which is absolutely mind blowing if you really think about what's going on right now that we're alive here right now.
I can't help but just feel super humbled by all of it. Um, a lot from people who wouldn't consider themselves teachers, right? Like just by this, by a word or an action or just a movement or anything like that can just have huge effects on people.
[00:48:55] Lore: For sure. Sometimes we don't know how much are we impact people, you know, in, in ways, you know, good or so called good or bad.
For me, a lot of, you know, the ways I've learned just how to be a good human being or how to, come out of really tough places or, , in my work, and I think there's a real common thread of presence and love, and I, what I really believe or I've come to know is that if that's not cultivated within, you know, I'm not like the way I look back and see, you know, Billy or I see Duncan or there's another meditation teacher, um, Heather Martin, um, different elders, indigenous elders embraced me in my life.
It's like, there's a quality I can see in all of them that is, you know, I said like self possession. It's like this. I have myself. And there's just in knowing that there's, they have done a lot of work, a lot of practice. And that there's love within and presence within to be able to then offer that to others, you know?
It's really when you say, you know, all I really want is to be loved or that's all that really matters. I think that's true. And how do we learn to love ourselves? You know, that's been a journey for me. And I, for me, I'm coming back to the plants because I feel like there's so much love from what I experience of the plants.
Um, and there's like, I think they teach us to how to really find ways to come out of the detriments of the programming. or kind of our own patterns. That we find ourselves in, you know, and, um, I think of, um, our friend Robin, who's a, it's a teacher, also a human being, breath wave, just connected, conscious connected breath work.
[00:51:23] Pascal: He has that deep abiding presence of just love and strength and, um, You can see in his eyes when you just look at him.
He's just like, adoring you, right? He has that quality. Yeah, he's got presence. He's
[00:51:37] Lore: got presence, yeah. And, yeah, and I think he would say that he's done a lot of so called quote unquote work on himself in his life. Yeah.
[00:51:48] Pascal: Yeah, for sure.
[00:51:49] Lore: I wish there was another word for that. I don't like the word work.
Yeah. But sometimes it's hard work. A lot of hard work and play. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:52:06] Pascal: Yeah. It almost feels like this sort of idea of, a good teacher. I'd love to get your advice on how to find good teachers. Right. Like, how did you. get to meet all these amazing people, which seems to be the quality that they have is there's sort of like, you know, a piece of glass where like God can shine through them in a way that's kind of full of love, but also strength and neutrality and of holding presence that can allow you to be who you are without feeling like you're unsafe in any way.
I think that's the quality of experience I've had with all the Beautiful teachers I've also been blessed with. So how do people find them? Those teachers, how, what's been your process? I guess it's not a three point plan where you're like, Oh, I need a teacher this week, I'm going to follow this protocol.
[00:53:02] Lore: Well, I don't know where this comes from. But there's, there's this saying that, um, When a, when a student is ready, a teacher will come, you know, when you are ready, teacher will come, you know, um, I don't want to prescribe any certain way to find a teacher. I mean, I don't know, I don't know, I think it's like you said,
[00:53:30] Pascal: Facebook marketplace.
[00:53:32] Lore: I think you said to once in this conversation that there's a quality, like you said. There's a quality that you focus on that you want to bring into your life. And I think that's helpful, whether that's actually find a teacher or not.
I mean, it's also probably why Billy's like, don't call me a teacher. You know, we are all have our wisdoms and our gifts for each other. All of us. There's no one person who is this or that. And it happens to be that in my life, as you know, the way I walk in the world, um, you know, I resonate with, with this person at a time in my life that I, that I needed, they, they happened to offer me or I offered them or a mutual, mutuality of connection and resonance.
And so therefore then I call them my teacher because they have wisdom that I, that they impart. That I really needed.
[00:54:24] Pascal: You know? Yeah, different phases of your life, right? Yeah! But
[00:54:29] Lore: then there's people who I've learned from, so many people learned from in the years of my practice, my work, you know, my being a, therapist or being a facilitator or being a presence for people in their process.
And I, you know, one way to look at it is that how did I, how did I really come across people? I think looking back, like one of the things that I hold such a high value of is presence. And it's interesting how many people in my life that have really influenced me, that I love, have offered me so much, um, is presence.
And then therefore that's something that actually I now hold, you know, and practice and offer, you know, so that's interesting, right? Like, Um, that I, that I come across that and that, you know, that's something that, that now I've kind of brought in to my life. I think that's why we call them teachers.
[00:55:38] Pascal: Yeah.
And you've, you've, you've displayed that really well with me and Elaine and, you know, my family and. We're very grateful for that. Um, you spoke really well about the resonance piece and we talked about listening earlier and I think the, the missing piece there for me that I'm feeling into now is this idea of trusting, right?
The trusting of that resonance and the trusting of the message that you receive, for example, from the cedar tree is reconnection with spirit and our hearts. and trusting that it's true and guiding us, um, and listening to that message, right? It's not enough just to hear it. You have to trust and follow that direction, which is, again, sort of helping us deprogram away from our mind, which is great in many ways, but sometimes you have to let go of that and just trust something that feels maybe a little bit, you know, less painted on the exact lines, right?
Like it feels a little bit off of the usual mode. And I think that's, that's a very healing thing to do. And, um, probably what helps lead us to, and vice versa to our teachers and to them, to us, right? I think it goes both ways, like you said.
And we talked about this a little bit, I'd love to touch on that, this idea of, You know, belonging and finding meaning in community. We talked about teachers. We talked about people around us. Um, what do you think the plants are trying to teach us around this idea of belonging and meaning as it relates to community?
[00:57:19] Lore: Oh, that's a, I love your question. And I would like to answer it from what are the, what do I feel the plants are teaching me? Um, in my life, I, and I don't think I'm alone on this, I know I'm not, is that, I've had a lot of wounding around belonging in my life.
Feeling like I actually don't belong anywhere for a lot of my life. You know, I'm a queer and genderqueer person. Um, and I bring that in for a lot of reasons, but one of them is like, it's not the norm. It's normal, but it's not the norm. And so finding belonging, uh. I've been blessed to be part of many different queer and trans communities in different places I've lived along my life and felt belonging, but there's a deeper sense of not belonging.
Um, so I just want to share that I have had wounding around that in my life. And I think many people have, and, um, so what are the plans? teaching me about belonging.
Hmm.
[00:58:36] Lore: Well, so many things come to mind and I know we're coming to a close, but I really want to share, um, the community, the beautiful facilitator that I, um, first sat with, with the grandmother and her team of people.
Um, that really, really started to heal, took away at this wounding of belonging, but also so many things, like what I experienced in that circle, which was five days. Mostly for people healing trauma through working with ayahuasca. It was kind of a combination of, um, relational somatic therapy slash integration circles, um, supporting, um, the time in between two ceremonies with ayahuasca.
Really incredibly high integrity, really skilled, really, So much love and presence and that really opened my open me big time. It's like, um, I I think for the first time I really experienced like this like this depth of experience with the medicine but then this like love and care and like holding people wherever they were at, you know a circle of people all with different experiences or different, you know, hangups or, different personalities and this, this team of beautiful people, um, just offering so much love and care, um, was, yeah, I was like, wow, that's amazing.
It's like, I, it's like, I knew that, or like I wanted that, or there was something in me, but at that time I had a lot of shielding. I was protecting myself. I didn't trust easily. I wasn't as open, you know, and so to experience, being held through these days together and in such an integrity, such an integrous way.
With, again, it's not really, it's just like, it's the people and the modality, you know, and so belonging is like, there is such a, it wasn't like a formal introduction, like, Hey, welcome to our community and you belong here. It was just this, there's a sense of like, ah, like, um, This is what I want to be a part of.
And this is actually happening. This is like manifested in the world. This is ongoing. And, um,
[01:01:23] Pascal: it was
[01:01:23] Lore: a beautiful inspiration to, yeah, open to that.
[01:01:30] Pascal: Yeah. I remember like my first plant medicine retreat where I thought I was going to a yoga retreat and that night I was. Having my first grandmother experience.
And I was a really awkward dude back then and very antisocial, social anxiety, just depression, like self esteem issues. And I remember being there the first day and arriving to this place in the forest and Galeano Island. It was a bit of a hippie community, you know, musicians and they were wearing rainbow pants and the whole thing and they were smiling at each other and like having a good time, laughing, playing music and just doing community really well.
And I felt so uneasy in that space and felt so uncomfortable and I was just trying to stay away. It took me many, many trips to go there. And every time I would go there would crack me open a little bit, like a little moment of feeling safe or a little moment of seeing genuine relating between people, a little moment of getting a hug from someone, like all those little things started to crack me up to start really accepting the reality of what.
The space I was in was like, really, and over the years, that, that crack opened me up to different aspects of belonging. And I think, you know, the biggest piece for me was just belonging within myself, and belonging within my family system, and belonging within my, my, my own relationship to my wife, and belonging to, you know, the layers keep evolving over time, and I'm still working on belonging.
So, I think, It's a really nuanced topic and a very complex one at that, but yet I think having the courage to go in those spaces. And I think what's also really important too is like finding the right facilitators who can help create and co create that space is really important. So that's crucial, right?
Because I think we've been very lucky. You know, I know who you're talking about to, to be working with people with such high integrity that they're actually doing the work within themselves and applying it in practice to their work is a huge blessing. Vetting your facilitators is huge for that.
Massive, massive for sure.
[01:03:48] Lore: I want to touch back a little bit about belonging, because I think that there's, you know, when you say belonging to yourself and, Um, I think there's a connection between belonging and worthiness, you know, this like feeling of being worthy. And I think a lot of people, and I know for myself, like, I just don't think I felt a lot of my life, like just, um, worthy of just being, it's like, I am who I am and I'm worthy of just being a human being and that's it.
It's like for, and I do believe it's like elements of the impacts of trauma and different traumas in my life. that contribute to a sense of unworthiness. For me, what comes to mind is shame. Shame is, uh, it's painful. And there's a real sense of unworthiness. I believe with shame. And when you feel shame, when I feel shame, I don't feel like I'm like, there's not belonging and shame don't go together.
So, so this, this feeling of worthiness and belonging, kind of going back to your question of like my modification of my answer to say, what are the plants teaching me about belonging? What are they teaching us? I want to answer what they teach me is, um, well, I call it like the realm of the plants and that
I belong there. I am not a plant spirit. I'm not a plant. But, um, but there's the realm of the plants is what I say. And like, um, yeah, connecting to that realm. I feel worthy. I feel love. I feel belonging. Like I just, it's not like I belong to. It's just this like ease of being. This ease of being. Um, I think there's like a relief or like a, um, you know, belonging might also relate to just safe, like, it's okay to just be myself as I am.
In this moment or as I am throughout the days or whatever it may be, it's like this, you know, it's just this relief of like, Oh, yeah, it's all good, you know, it isn't all good. There are, there is suffering, there is challenge, but when I take a moment and just like think of, my connection with the plants and then I just feel into my body about like, Oh, how does that feel for me in this moment?
There's like an ease and also a bit of like this like soft expansion, you know, I can feel it in like my heart or in my body and this like, it's really kind of soft, like bubbling of like joy, you know, it's like. And I think it's like going back to disturbance, like if I can zone in on like, Oh, what do I actually feel versus trying to think of a way to describe it or, um, what, what kind of train of incoming information am I going to focus on or stay in connection with?
And, um, I think that there's a kind of. vibration or frequency or type of energy different plants function on that I think their gift to us is that, or their gift to me, is that I get to entrain to their energy or their different types of energies and plants, different plants have different energies. So the gift is like entraining to that.
That's what I was going to say about Robin. He uses the word entrainment. I think that's where I got the word
from.
[01:08:01] Lore: And it's not his word, but he uses it. And, and so I love it. I love that word. Entrain. It's like, if something is, is working at a certain frequency or vibration, just by virtue of being in, in proximity, you know, entrainment is that like, uh, different energy maybe.
can come into the same frequency, two different energies in proximity, maybe so called higher frequency or maybe more resonant or clean or clear or more loving, let's say, less stressful, that energy can entrain a lower or higher frequency. Or challenging energy and bring it up to its level so they're functioning at the same frequency.
And that's what I think the plants offer. That's beautiful. Yeah,
[01:08:56] Pascal: go ahead. Yeah, it's, it's an ongoing resource, right? We can go back to those times and places and people and, um, attune to that. I think that those small things play a huge role in, in sort of healing and integration too, right? It's like they, those things don't disappear after you experience them.
You can always go back. You don't necessarily need to go have another dose. You can also just go back to the feeling of what,
[01:09:27] Lore: what happened. Don't go back. Go now. Right now. Just, just bring that to the now moment. Your, yeah, your, Feeling of it.
[01:09:39] Pascal: Yeah. And keep in training to it. Like, Oh, I felt belonging in this moment.
Uh, let's go back to that. We talked about sort of the Western culture about moving very quickly and all those things earlier. And it's the simple things to me, it's like, you know, take a secret pause during the day and just, reconnect to yourself or like a, a resourcing moment in your life or an experience and go back to that a little bit every day and then you start in training to that and all of a sudden the course of your life is just changed, you know, and that's why, when I put my son Noah to bed every night, or every two nights, because Elaine, Some nights, but, um, I have a mantra for him that I've been developing over the years, which is I recite certain teachings that I've learned and I want to pass to him and it's just very simple things like, I'm love, I'm safe, I'm enough, and the list goes on and the reason I want to do that is just in training him to these ideas that, um, are really the truth, but can easily get layered upon by life and, other people and experiences.
And I think those small resources really helped to build belonging in the world and meaning as well. So, um, yeah, the invitation for people listening is connecting to those small things every day and seeing where it takes you.
[01:11:00] Lore: Yeah. And the truth is, is like the truth of it all is that we, we already belong, you know, whether we think we don't or feel we don't, or have experiences that might indicate otherwise.
The real truth is that we do. Just by virtue of being a human being, we are worthy.
[01:11:19] Pascal: Mhm.
[01:11:20] Lore: You know? So what a
[01:11:21] Pascal: relief.
[01:11:28] Lore: Totally. Yeah.
[01:11:34] Pascal: And, uh, yeah, thanks for, thanks for sharing all this today. And, uh, it was a real honor and always a pleasure. I feel like we can go on for hours and hours and
[01:11:43] Lore: we're doing an
[01:11:44] Pascal: episode part two. Uh, tomorrow, uh, this one is going to be focused on facilitators and facilitation in general. Um, you have some things to share about that.
I have questions for you, so we'll talk more tomorrow. Um, but before we go, I'd love to chat a little bit, um, about a really special retreat that you're helping put together. Can you tell us a bit more about that?
[01:12:12] Lore: Yeah. So first of all, I want to say thank you to Pascal for this beautiful conversation. And it's always a pleasure to connect with you and talk with you and share.
So really I'm grateful for, yeah, for this, this conversation and connection.
[01:12:29] Pascal: Likewise. Thank you so much.
[01:12:31] Lore: Yeah. So the retreat. So I am implementing or carrying forward, carrying through with the vision of Onaya Rogelia. My sister, Rogelia, who I've been working with, and it's her wish to host a small and intimate retreat for people to experience, um, traditional ancestral Shipibo medicine.
So the, the name of the retreat is, um, Shipibo Cultural Immersion. And so there's a couple of reasons for that. You, it's five people for 10 days. There'll be three ceremonies, be three integration circles. The first ceremony is traditional. Traditionally is only the curandera that drinks the medicine and she drinks to doctors so she sees you and, um, connects with the plants.
And the unique thing about, um, this retreat is that you have the opportunity to sit in ceremony traditionally. And then the second and third ceremony of three ceremonies, you get the option, you can choose whether you want to drink the medicine, ayahuasca. Um, and the unique thing is two things. Um, you receive a personalized plant healing remedy.
So after the first ceremony, if you would like, Um, she will offer you a remedy that you will likely drink, um, a plant remedy that she will harvest and prepare for you individually to help your healing process for the 10 days. Um, and then there's also traditional plant baths and plant saunas throughout the 10 days and those plants for you are individualized to support your healing process.
So these are parts of the, these are just elements of the, um, ancestral medicine practice. And then you'll be staying at the, at the homestead of a Karendera. So it's not Anaya Rogelia, but it's her auntie, who is a healer, Anaya Karendera. So be staying there with her and immersing in kind of Shipibo culture.
So there are also workshops offered throughout the 10 days for people to be more, be more informed on what is. ancestral Shipibo medicine. What is it? And what is kind of the history of Shipibo culture? And there's kind of some information on what is ceremonial uses of tobacco, mapacho and Shipibo hape and Shipibo traditional healing massage, which is massage for the purposes of healing.
And Um, different elements of, um, Shipibo history, culture and healing modalities. So there are other workshops and they're, they're not to teach you how to heal people in these traditional ways. They're just for people to be more informed and to learn more. Um, so it's really for people who, um, want to avoid ayahuasca tourism.
Um, And then I go, like me, I was like, well, how do I find someone to work with, um, and avoid indigenous exploitation and the harms of ayahuasca tourism, which some people may be aware of. Um, so it's for people who are, who are wanting to work with a, a true healer. Um, maybe experience some of the traditional ways of the medicine, working with the plants directly as well as ayahuasca, and learning more about the, the culture.
So um, the retreat dates are November 1st to the 11th, and there are two retreats, and the second retreat is November 16th to the 27th. And um, yeah, I can, I guess you can share that link or information for people if they're interested.
[01:16:52] Pascal: Yeah, for sure. We'll put in the show notes and just for, and that all sounds really amazing.
I want to go, um, and just for like some additional, for some additional context to like, you know, you've been there for how many months now?
[01:17:06] Lore: Well, I've been in Peru for 10 months. So for a couple of weeks in Bolivia, um, but I've been working with, um, on Ayahuasca for the last six months. So,
[01:17:18] Pascal: um, so this is not like a recommendation because you had a nice weekend there.
Like you've done some deep, very on the ground work with them and had amazing results for your health and well being. Amazing. Amazing, yeah. I mean, Elaine had been tracking that and receiving your updates and this is not like a commercialized, like in and out sort of retreat. This is a real opportunity to sit in deep medicine.
With Yes. Um, the land and people who do this with high integrity. And a little note on that one is that I would consider Laura one of the mentors of n Carra and one of the people that I hold in the highest integrity in, in the work and the words that they, they share and the way they are in the world.
So their recommendation when they. Talked about this retreat. I was like, well, if lore is recommending this or promoting it in any way, it means that it's the, of the highest integrity count us in. So, uh, I think both of them are going to, and you're doing it for the right reasons, you want to help the family and, and, you know, paid forward and.
Well, the thing is,
[01:18:25] Lore: yeah, I mean, the thing is, is like, I, how do, how does she find people that really want to do healing? And, you know, there's a difference between going to like a high end resort and having ayahuasca experiences. And then there's actually kind of like just experiencing, um, Yeah, authentic healing, I would say.
And, um, so I feel like I'm a bridge. And so to speak, I live in the West predominantly. Um, I, I can connect in, in a language that they speak, you know, uh, Rogelio speaks to people, she speaks Spanish as well, but people's her first language living in a small village in the jungle, how to, how to invite people to come in and work in, in the real traditional way.
Of like powerful plant healing. Um, it's hard to get people. So it's like us trying to come to find an authentic healer. How do I do that? Navigating people who might just be offering ayahuasca. Might not have like 40 years of working medicinally with the plants. So then it's her being like, how do I get people who don't just want to experience ayahuasca, but they want to support this medicine, this actual practice of medicine that she's been carrying the knowledge through thousands of years.
It's not just kind of learning how to pour ayahuasca. And then, so how do, how do people meet each other that want the same thing? And I think one element of this retreat, which I want to share as well, is that it's supporting these, um, maestros and curanderos who are carrying the practice of this medicine in that very, it's supporting their work and supporting the medicine.
So I don't mean it's supporting ayahuasca. I mean, it's supporting like this ancestral way of practicing healing. Um, and I believe that needs support. Yeah. I think that
[01:20:26] Pascal: it totally does. Yeah. And, um, you know, so they're both going to sell out. I'm pretty sure. Yeah. Like there's only 10 spots available. Yeah.
Yeah.
[01:20:37] Lore: And some of them are taken. So, um, I, yeah, and it's for people who are conscious of avoiding exploitation, respectful relations and conditions. and care, making sure that this practice carries on as well as going into a deep healing with a pretty intimate setting, integrations, which, uh,
[01:21:00] Pascal: is it, you know, they're an amazing, uh, support and, and guide.
And, and yeah, I mean, what a blessing that they get all that and your support. It's kind of like the Sherry on the top in my opinion. Yeah. All right. So I'll share the information in the notes. Go ahead.
[01:21:22] Lore: Oh yeah, I was just going to say, if people are interested, they can, um they can contact me for, um, to start the, the registration or intake process.
And that information, I think you're going to post through Nectara.
[01:21:35] Pascal: Yeah, it'll be in the page and, uh, you know, Laura at Nectara dot guide is their email and, uh, feel free to email them and get connected. And, uh, Laura, I, I'm really grateful for your time and energy and I hope people found it interesting and, and, uh, inspiring in some ways.
And, uh, I just want to say thank you for sharing. Your words and your time with us today was a real honor as usual, and I look forward to recording part two tomorrow.
[01:22:03] Lore: Yeah, thank you so much, Pascal. And thanks to everyone who tuned in and listened. And yeah, really, yeah, really appreciate that you're doing these podcasts and sharing with all the other guests.
It's a great, it's a great podcast. And thank you.
[01:22:22] Pascal: All right. Thank you so much and blessings for the rest of your day.
[01:22:25] Lore: Thank you.
